It’s time to get paid what you deserve. In part 1 of “Tips For Getting a Raise”, hosts Eric and Sydney talked about why asking for more money from your boss can feel challenging (but might be easier than you think). 

In Part 2, Eric and Sydney continue their conversation about how to ask for a raise and offer steps you can take today to prepare for your next pay bump. Eric shares tips for what to do in specific situations, why every job change should come with a raise, and the difference between asking for a raise and setting yourself up for a promotion. If you’re hunting for a new job offering incredible perks, check out Payactiv Job boards in the Payactiv App to find a job offering Earned Wage Access. 

Was this podcast helpful? Send feedback and questions to [email protected]. 

Listen here or read the transcript below. 

Eric:

Hi, I’m your host, Eric Rosenberg. I’m a personal finance expert and consultant. I love all things finance and I have my own blog and podcast at personalprofitability.com. For a quick heads up, I am not a registered financial advisor and this podcast is for information purposes only is only.

Eric:

Hello, there friends. Welcome back to the PayActiv Podcast. If you were listening last week, which we hope you were, you might have noticed we ran out of time. So we’re back today for part two. If you did not listen to last week’s show, please make sure to jump back and listen to that first. Otherwise, this won’t make a whole lot of sense to you. If you’re not already, head to Spotify, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen and make sure to subscribe to the PayActiv Podcast so you don’t miss our upcoming episodes. We have a lot of fun coming to you in the future, but right now we’re going to dive back in with our discussion on what to do if you are wanting to get a raise.

Sydney:

So let’s say that imaginary person, they’ve gone to their boss. They said, here’s my realistic number that I would like. Here’s why I deserve it. Here’s how I provide value to the company. From there, let’s say their boss says, awesome, great, fabulous. Here you go. So we can say that happens. But I feel like what happens more often is the boss says I don’t have that kind of power. I understand where you’re coming from. If I could, I would do it for you, but my hands are tied. So at that point, what would the next steps be to try to get that raise either within the company or moving on to a different company?

Eric:

Yeah. So to approach that situation, I’d say to my boss, well, I understand just like I report to you, you report to someone. Is there someone we can work with to see if this is possible? So I would try to turn an I can’t into a let’s see if there’s a path forward. Eventually some bosses will just give you a dead end. Sometimes it happens and some companies put pay freezes in. That’s a very common thing, especially if the economy is in a shaky position or things are looking like they might go downward. At that point, a lot of companies put a freeze on any kind of raise, and I’ve been in companies in that situation. I’ve been in companies with layoffs. So I’ve seen the good times and the bad times, and in the bad times, you’re probably less likely to get that raise than in the good times.

Eric:

But again, if you think you are, or if you know you are a good contributor, if you know you are bringing good value and you are still being underpaid for the value you bring, that’s the time when I’d start to think, oh, maybe I should look elsewhere. That’s where actually I got the biggest raise of my career. As I mentioned, I got about a 25% raise one time when I got a big promotion in a job very early in my career. I went from the regular analyst level to the senior analyst level. I found out I was at the bottom of the pay scale on the analyst level. I just graduated from college. That’s kind of reasonable for the time, but that meant that I had to go up the next level on the company’s pay scale. So, that’s how I got such a big raise, was because I was really truly promoted, not just given a raise.

Eric:

The real biggest pay increase I ever had was actually about a 40% increase. That was when I was willing to move, to find a new job. I was actually excited to move. I was looking to move to a new city. We wanted to go to Portland and I started applying for jobs in Portland, and I worked with several different companies up there to try to find what might be the best role. At no point did I ever say what I made in my last job. As I mentioned early on, that’s a big key. I never said I made this. I said, these are the skills I have. These are the experiences I have. This is the education I have. I listed out my credentials and everything I could bring.

Eric:

I had the highlights of my big win lists from my old jobs. I took the biggest wins and shared those in the interview process. Then when I got the call that said, here’s your offer. And it was a 40% higher offer than I had made in my old job. When we hung up. I started jumping up and down. It was a great, great day. I moved for that job and it turned out the job wasn’t that great. But the raise was, and when I moved on to my next job after that, that was my new kind of base salary that everything was based on. So as I said, when you get a raise, you get that raise hopefully forever in your career and you never take a step back down. So every time I move jobs, I moved up with my pay rate and I would always say, well, I’m never going to take a job that pays less.

Eric:

There were times that I was offered jobs that might have had a smaller raise. There was actually a time I was working with a career recruiter, which might apply to your industry. The recruiter said this job would be great. I went through the interviews. After the interviews, I realized there weren’t really any upward potentials in that company. The job you’re in is where you’re in. The recruiter said, you should take the job. It was something like a five or 10% raise. She said, that’s all anyone can expect right now. I was like, no, that’s not true. Then I got the 40% raise. Also, remember, be careful whose advice you take and who you trust in your career, because there are a lot of different people who would benefit from hiring you at the lowest rate possible. So you have to be the one to advocate for yourself and the best possible pay rate.

Sydney:

Absolutely. Always, always, always through each step. It seems like you always have to be doing that check in, figuring out what you’re worth at that point, given that we’re always learning and growing and getting new experience under our belt. So that number is always in flux. That’s never the same. So it’s sort of a mindset that you kind of need to shift into. So then let’s say that your current employer’s like, sorry. Nope, no can do. We can’t raise you up anymore. And you’ve decided to either make the decision to get a promotion or leave your company entirely. So between those two, are you saying that it would be more beneficial for most people to move to another company if you’re noticing that those promotions and it’s not like there’s a lot of vertical movement happening, to just be okay with changing companies and not feeling so emotionally attached to your current job. Is that sort of what you’re saying?

Eric:

Yeah. So according to the numbers, you can Google it. There’s a lot of different studies on this. They say you don’t want to move jobs too often because it looks bad to employers. You look like you’re fickle and it’s called a job hopper. So if you move jobs on average, definitely under a year, that’s a big red flag. That might prevent you from getting new jobs in the future. So make sure you stay everywhere. Or when you’re looking for jobs, you’d be willing to be there at least a year at minimum, because if you don’t give it that long, unless there’s some real big reason, most people for future employers would, again, look at that as a reason to suspect something is up with you rather than the company. So that’s why a lot of people say three to five years is a good time to stay at companies.

Eric:

Two years, I’d personally, if I were hiring somebody today and I saw they worked somewhere less than two years on average, I would be wondering what’s up with that. If they’re there more than seven, eight years, that’s when they’re definitely costing themselves money, according to a lot of these studies, unless you’re regularly getting promoted. If you are, high five, good for you. But a lot of people don’t have that good fortune to get promoted frequently and keep having those big jumps in pay. So if you have been in your same role and you feel stagnant, and it’s been three years, four years, that’s the time I’d start to really think, is this the place that I have the best future? Or should I look for somewhere the grass might be a little greener?

Sydney:

So let’s say that you love the company you’re at right now, and you are seeing people get promoted all around you. How would you tell someone to start that process of asking for a promotion that comes with a race?

Eric:

Yeah. So it depends on your company a little bit. So the first thing I’d do is maybe covertly ask a coworker who’s been there a while and say, “Hey, what do you see that works for people to get promoted? What do you see people do that ends up helping them move up?” There might be a secret trick at your company. Hopefully it’s all good and above the board and it’s a nice, clean, good path to get promoted. But some companies have things where it’s kind of a buddy system or worse, and friends get promoted. So you have to understand your company culture. Hopefully it’s a good culture. So we’re going to focus on that and assume you’re at a good place where everyone works on the up and up. You talk to your coworker and they say, “Oh yeah, we have people who work hard and do well, tend to get promoted.”

Eric:

So hopefully that’s the answer you get. So let’s say you get that answer. We’d already talked about your big win list. So you’re going to need that a lot in your career. I’d always keep your big win lists going because you never want to forget those big victories. By showing your current boss, Hey, these are those big victories I’ve had. Look at what I’m able to do. Maybe you should consider giving me more. So that could be a way to start broaching a conversation about a promotion.

Eric:

I’d say, unlike a raise conversation, a promotion conversation can start a little less formally. You can kind of drop hints in conversations with your boss and maybe other managers around. Yeah, I’m ambitious. I’m looking to move up. You don’t want to make them think that you’re trying to jump over them. Bosses don’t usually like that, but having somebody who’s ambitious on their team is often a good thing, too. You want to make sure your boss and other managers are aware that you are looking to move up. So that’s something I’d just say is kind of a general thing, but be professional about it. Don’t say anything awkward. Just say, “Hey, I’m looking at moving up or I see there’s new opportunities to be a manager or a supervisor. That’s something I might be interested in at some point.”

Eric:

So, that’s a good way to informally discuss it. Depending on your company, there might be clear routes to do internal promotion processes, where you apply for a job internally. When I’ve worked at really big companies, that’s what you’re usually going to see. They’re often not going to just make up a job and promote somebody, though that does happen on occasion. Sometimes let’s say you work for somebody who’s at a director level. Maybe there’s a few steps up that you could still work for that boss. If you do have that opportunity, sometimes that is where you might see someone get a title promotion and a responsibility increase without totally changing their job.

Eric:

So sometimes that’s a possibility, and you just have to kind of know your company to know if that’s a realistic likelihood or not, and also your role and your team and your manager. If that isn’t the route up, you can look. Sometimes there’s internal job boards or internal job postings and things like that to move to other teams within your same group, or even within a larger group. Again, depending on the size of your company. If you’re working in accounting, maybe there’s a different accounting manager, or maybe there’s a finance role that you might like. If you’re in manufacturing, maybe there’s a different product line manager that you could learn that product and that could be a way to move up.

Eric:

Every different company, every situation is going to be different. If you work at a bank as a teller, your route to get promoted is going to be very different than if you are a shift supervisor at a grocery store. So you have to know again, what you do and get to know your company. But to summarize, making sure that your managers know you want to move up and are aware. So, if there’s an opportunity, you might come to mind first. Then if you do see an internal promotion opportunity posted, if it looks like a good fit, don’t be bashful. Tell your manager and tell that new manager that you’re interested and start that process. Because that is how I got promoted at work one time as well. I found a job internally that looked great and I found a new department. My old boss was sad to lose me and my new boss was happy to have me, and I was happy to get paid a little more on the way too. So it was a good thing.

Sydney:

Let’s say that list of big wins isn’t quite enough to get you the promotion in the industry that you’re in. Let’s say you need just more technical training and knowledge to move up the ranks. Do you have any tips for people looking to still stay within their company, because they like the company and the culture, but who still feel kind of stuck because the big wins list isn’t quite strong enough to help boost them up into the next level.

Eric:

Yeah, that’s great. So one, I would keep working on that big wins list. Don’t forget about it. Keep trying to win on things. That’s always a good strategy. But a lot of employers have programs that, if you want to learn something or get a certification or pick up a new skill, that they will either cover the cost or help cover part of the cost. If you want to go to a local community college, for example, to take a class or get a certification, those are often very affordable and an employer might have an official program already in place to help cover tuition, tuition reimbursement, something like that. If not, you could talk to your boss. Maybe they have a small budget for team building or team education, things like that they have some flexibility to give you a little bit, to help towards that education.

Eric:

Once, I actually had a boss who was willing to just let me leave work a little early to go to class. That was the big benefit the company was able to give me. I didn’t get any money towards going to school, but I did get to leave a little early so I could get to class. That’s how I was able to go to graduate school is because my boss let me leave early.

Sydney:

That’s really cool. Why would your boss do something like that? Why would any boss want to just give out money so that you’re even spending less time at work? You know what I mean?

Eric:

Yeah. Well it’s really good for a company to have their employees move up in their abilities. Let’s think if you are the boss of a team of a bunch of people who make widgets, and one of your employees goes to widget making school and learns how to make a better widget faster than all the other employees. That one’s probably the one who’s going to be most likely to be promoted because the company wants that person to stay. They want to help that person get that education because then that education can come back and help the company. So that’s a win for you and your career and it’s a win for your company. So that’s a good thing.

Eric:

Also companies, right now especially, we see in the news, a lot of talk about the great resignation. Companies want to do what they can to keep you at work. Everywhere has now hiring signs up. This isn’t a time companies can afford to lose people. If they can give you a small amount of money to help you improve your skills, that then come back and help the company again, it most likely would have to be related to your career path. They might be willing to do a tuition reimbursement for you.

Eric:

If you’re working in a factory, they’re probably not going to do a tuition reimbursement program for you to go to art school. You want us stay relevant to what you’re doing, but if there is a program like that, absolutely try to take advantage. It can help your current position. It can help you maybe move up there by, as we just talked about a second hug, maybe you’ll get a promotion because you’re the best widget maker or whatever it is you do on your team.

Sydney:

A widget maker.

Eric:

In high school economics class. That’s what my teacher always used as examples, widgets.

Sydney:

Widget maker.

Eric:

So if you’re the best widget maker they’re going to want to promote you. And if you’re the best widget maker, when you want to go find a new job, you can say, Hey, look, I know how to make the best widgets. I have this certificate or degree or education, and I’ve completed that program. That will also probably help you get a higher pay rate when you move into a new job. So it’s always good all around to get more education and more certifications. It’s a lot of time and effort, but if you can get an employer to support it, even better, because it will come back and help you in so many ways in your career.

Sydney:

Just like asking for a raise is a hard thing to do in the moment. Getting that certification, adding on to your resume, it’s all part of the bigger picture of your career and your livelihood. It’s just so important to always be in that mindset. Even if you love your job, even if you don’t want a promotion right now, you probably will in the future. So this information is applicable to everybody.

Eric:

Yeah. It’s always good to invest in yourself and your skill set and your knowledge because you have that forever. No one’s ever going to take it away. Even if you decide to change careers, you’ll always have the ability to fall back on that certificate or degree or knowledge or experience. So it’s always a good thing to keep learning more and being the best you in everything you’re trying to do.

Sydney:

Oh, what a great place to end. Thank you so much for your time, Eric, answering my questions. I just want to say good luck. If you’re thinking about asking for promotion or a raise, you got this.

Eric:

Sydney, is your boss listening to this? Is there a promotion around the corner for you?

Sydney:

Yeah.

Eric:

Hint, hint boss. All right. Thank you so much, Sydney. This was great chatting with you. As always listeners, make sure you’re checking out the PayActiv app. If you have not downloaded it already, you can sign up for free. There are a ton of really cool features that can help you understand your income and your budget. Then you can think, oh, well, what would I do if I got that 5% raise? What would my finances look like? You’ll have a little bit more information to make better decisions there.

Sydney:

So also within the PayActiv app, if you are looking for a job, you are able to look for jobs that offer earned wage access for free. So, that earned wage access is just access to the money that you have earned on demand. So you click a button, you get your income. So it’s a really nice perk. Not everyone offers it, but there are a lot of employers, thousands of employers who offer this incredible perk. So if you are looking for a job with amazing perks, better than bring your dog to work day, this is one that you definitely want to look out for. So I highly recommend checking it out. All you have to do is download the PayActiv app and I’ll add some information in the description of this post.

Eric:

Hopefully they’ll let you bring your dog too.

Sydney:

Hopefully they let you do that too.

Eric:

Well, thank you everyone for coming back and listening to part two. This was a really fun series on how to get a raise. I hope you’re able to turn around and take this and get that raise. Line your pockets with a little more cash, because that’s what it is all about. Be sure again, to hit the subscribe button, if you have not already. Also, if you like the show, if it’s helping you, if you’re learning anything, tell a friend. That’s the best way you can help the show is by telling friends. If they like it, maybe they can subscribe and learn and get a raise too. Then they’ll give you credit for getting a raise. So they’ll like you even more and that’s a win-win for both of you, right?

Eric:

Well, that’s all the time we have for today. Thank you so much for being a part of the PayActiv community. As always, if you have not already, make sure to head to the Apple app store or Google Play store to download and install the PayActiv app it’s free and has tons of awesome features to help you take control of your money. Thanks so much. We’ll talk to you next time. Bye-bye.